Strange speaker placement results in puzzling effect .

Sounds like a really good setup and listening experience. So hard to comment without actually hearing what you heard. Maybe Optical can shed more light as he has a relatively nearfield setup.

Small (and well implemented) speakers can often do the trick of disappearing into the listening environment. Sounds like your friend has set them up really well.

I pulled my speakers further into the room after seeing bencat's musings.
And yes, it worked for me producing a deeper soundstage and better focused imaging.

Not quite so convenient in room, and I'm sure I shall curse a bit every time I stub my toe on the speaker platform nearest the door!

Chris while I have in the past thought what exactly what you did , and you are spot on with boundary enhanced designs this set up is far from this with the speakers at least half way in to the room . I am going to borrow a pair of stand mounts and stands and try and see if this works in my room as well . There is little doubt that this type of placement is not domestic friendly and takes up far too much space plus with children about it would be very dangerous . But I want to hear if it works in a very different room and system . Once I have had a try will let everyone know what I think .

Jerry nice that you are always prepared to give things a try . I have to admit I am going to try it but even if it sounds superb it is not a placement that I could live with . Domestic pressure from my wife and visiting grandchildren would see to that .

5 days on, and I've not moved my speakers back to their old nearer to the wall position.

I am using my faithful Behringer DEQ2496 digital equaliser to boost the bass a few db below 100hz. I've just got used to and prefer a slightly meatier presentation... I like the cello and double bass sections in an orchestra to growl at me.

Yup, still really enjoying the increased spatiality of the presentation.

My wife's noticed.
No, not the change in sound, but she nearly walked into the left hand speaker yesterday.
"Have you moved this?".

@arke >>It is generally not advised to sit with a wall or window directly behind you, however, this is currently my preferred position! The presentation seems more live, natural and relaxed. The sounstage is deep and the speakers melt away on decent recordings. Sitting further into the room sounds good but is a little more 'hifi' and seems less realistic. <<

That's interesting.
I'm forced into close proximity of the wall behind me due to my strong preference for placing speakers on the long wall of listening rooms, and the 20x12 foot dimensions of my room.

I've a 4x4 foot set of GIK 242 absorbing panels on the wall immediately behind my chair to try and 'virtually distance' myself from it.
Maybe I need to revisit this setup. Maybe bare wall would be best?

>>I would assume that your acoustic panels will be doing a good job behind your listening position and probably the ideal solution when listening across the room. Have you ever tried without them? I'd imagine the presentation may become slightly more confused by the rear reflections.<<

The panels have been there for a few years now, I recall being impressed by what they did when I put them up, but as this thread has shown it's good to revisit previous assumptions and preferences now and then!

It's easy enough to take them down, I'll give it a try sometime if I can be bothered.

have you ever tried those speakers down the long axis Jerry?

I have no choice over where to put mine, happily the only viable location is a good one and I get the 'sound happening in 3 dimensions behind the speakers' effect.

.... it does seem to make sense with the MBLs with their omni mids and treble and side firing woofers, but I also defo prefer it with conventional direct-fire speakers

I'm sure your MBLs would prefer a different setup compared to my speakers. I can see that a long rectangular room is a toss up between a wider or a deeper soundstage. Like I said, my current room only really works firing down the long axis. My last 2 rooms were long axis too, so maybe I have become accustomed to this.

How far back do sit Martin? (relative to overall length of room)

Well apologies to all over the delay I had planned to try to further investigate this but I needed a day when Linda was at work and my friend Graham was free to get things in place . Graham came over this morning with a small pair of Wharfdale speakers and some stands .

We set them up well over halfway in to the rooms and about 1 meter in front of the listening position . The speakers were pointed straight ahead with not toe in and about 90 inches apart . Fired them up and having tried this with the Quads which failed to work it was great to instantly find that using more conventional speakers with moving coil drivers that exactly as in Grahams room i was hearing the same thing .

Despite how close the speakers were to me sitting listening there did not appear to be any sound emanating in front of the speakers as there had been with the quads . Instead there was a very large (some recordings much larger than others ) soundstage behind the speakers were the performance was taking place . Instruments were clearly in there own space some closer than others and the Vocals were in most cases front and center . The effect was very realistic but changed with each recording so Talking Heads Take Me To The River was really huge lots of width , depth and full height . It was also obvious on some recordings Sara K Blind Hearted from the album Waterfalls was one she is sitting down when singing and appears at that reduced height level . Others like Cassandra Wilson are most clearly standing up and singing in to a mic .

This is a very realistic acoustic setting being created and for the music to emerge from and as stated it changes with each different recording . It is i fully realise a very difficult set up for any sort of normal life and if you have children lock the door when you try it or bad things could happen . I am glad that it is not just Grahams room and system that can make this trick work and I would encourage anyone to give this a try and let us all know what you hear if anything different than your normal set up . If I had the time I would have moved the speakers back an inch at a time towards the back wall behind them to find out how far out you need to get in to the room before the image collapses . Graham is convinced it needs to be really close to the listener but I think it will be possible further away as well . Perhaps that can be done another day .

I can fully see that no speaker mfg is going to ever suggest this sort of placement but I do really wonder if they are fully aware of this trick ? They design speakers to fit sensibly in to a domestic environment and be acceptable so this sort of extreme placement is not what these speakers were made for but they certainly in my view perform much better than they do compared to any accepted placement i have used. I would also add that all the speakers used both at Grahams and today at mine are ported speakers so designed for free space . I do not know if the same thing could be achieved with a sealed baffle speakers that are often designed with wall enforcement to beef up the bass .

So I find this interesting and would welcome any feedback from anyone else who is prepared to give it a try .

Thanks Mecca that is your view on what you have heard . It is not just my friends view which I thought I had made clear and was why I did this in my room with my equipment . What I heard I have never experienced with loudspeaker in a conventional set up . Yet now in two separate systems and rooms I have heard the same things . Perhaps you should try it and see what you hear . You may well find that it does nothing for you and view that I am wrong which is fair but you need to try it first .

Sound quality can just be better without meaning that lesser presentations are poor.

I was happy with the soundstaging on my system. Then prompted by this thread I pulled the speakers even further forward and shuffled my chair closer, and it was even better.

But yes, negative aspects like drivers not melding if heard closer could overwhelm the benefit, if any, of the Bencat Effect.

I don't think I want to go to the awful extreme of 1 metre from the speakers just in case it is wonderful! Simply totally impractical.