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Post by macca on Mar 12, 2023 15:17:57 GMT
QED 79 strand performing at the same level as TQ Ultra Black II 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 WTF have you been smoking Martin?? That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on the net. Have you ever stopped to consider just how it can be 'better'? What possible mechanism could be at work? I suppose not.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 12, 2023 15:44:39 GMT
QED 79 strand performing at the same level as TQ Ultra Black II 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 WTF have you been smoking Martin?? That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on the net. Have you ever stopped to consider just how it can be 'better'? What possible mechanism could be at work? I suppose not. Would it matter if he had? You've got your mind made up, and regardless of the fact you personally heard the difference between your NVA cable and my Spotfire cable in both my system and yours, you still refuse to acknowledge that these things have an effect.
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Post by jandl100 on Mar 12, 2023 16:52:04 GMT
Expanding on my thoughts, I'll ask jandl100 since he was the first to disagree with Macca's post. If we changed the items mentioned by Macca in you system Jerry and replaced your MBL's with Deuvel's, do you think it possible the Deuvel's could become your preferred speaker? I have named Deuvel's since they are omni's, but any speaker could be inserted. I happen to be particularly fond of my MBLs, so ignoring any swapping out possibilities, I have over the past year or two done some sanity checks on "audiophile accessories". First off, a grounding box. I'd had it for a year or so following the extraordinary enthusiasm for the things on another forum. But after a bit I saw it taking up space and just wondered. As one sometimes does. Took it out. Feck all difference, sold it. Haha, I'm on to a winner here, thought I. Hmmm, that balanced power supply. Another piece of unnecessary foo. Swapped it out. Urk. My system took a substantial step backwards Back in again with a sense of relief. Cables. I thought I'd try out some CCC interconnects enthusiastically recommended on a forum of my acquaintance. 2D and a bit bland. Luckily I managed to get my preferred cables back having foolishly sold them. So the conclusion there is that cables do matter, but they have to tie in with my own subjective preference. So returning to the point, can I imagine that I'd prefer a slightly inferior speaker with my balanced power supply in the system vs a slightly superior speaker without the PSU in the system? - definitely!
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Post by nonuffin on Mar 12, 2023 17:03:18 GMT
Have you ever stopped to consider just how it can be 'better'? What possible mechanism could be at work? I suppose not. Would it matter if he had? You've got your mind made up, and regardless of the fact you personally heard the difference between your NVA cable and my Spotfire cable in both my system and yours, you still refuse to acknowledge that these things have an effect. Don't be too hard on our dear old mate Martin.
EVERY forum has it's very own resident miserable naysayer Ollie, so let him get on with the job shall we?
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Post by antonio on Mar 12, 2023 17:14:53 GMT
Expanding on my thoughts, I'll ask jandl100 since he was the first to disagree with Macca's post. If we changed the items mentioned by Macca in you system Jerry and replaced your MBL's with Deuvel's, do you think it possible the Deuvel's could become your preferred speaker? I have named Deuvel's since they are omni's, but any speaker could be inserted. I happen to be particularly fond of my MBLs, so ignoring any swapping out possibilities, I have over the past year or two done some sanity checks on "audiophile accessories". First off, a grounding box. I'd had it for a year or so following the extraordinary enthusiasm for the things on another forum. But after a bit I saw it taking up space and just wondered. As one sometimes does. Took it out. Feck all difference, sold it. Haha, I'm on to a winner here, thought I. Hmmm, that balanced power supply. Another piece of unnecessary foo. Swapped it out. Urk. My system took a substantial step backwards Back in again with a sense of relief. Cables. I thought I'd try out some CCC interconnects enthusiastically recommended on a forum of my acquaintance. 2D and a bit bland. Luckily I managed to get my preferred cables back having foolishly sold them. So the conclusion there is that cables do matter, but they have to tie in with my own subjective preference. So returning to the point, can I imagine that I'd prefer a slightly inferior speaker with my balanced power supply in the system vs a slightly superior speaker without the PSU in the system? - definitely! I can fully understand that, although I will say if changing speakers you really need to hear an improvement otherwise why bother. I changed from Epos ES14 to Shahinian Obelisks, I remember my brother changing from Linn Active Kabers using 3 Linn Klouts to JM Lab Mezzo Utopia's and using only one Klout, these were both huge improvements in our systems.
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Post by misterc on Mar 12, 2023 17:37:15 GMT
QED 79 strand performing at the same level as TQ Ultra Black II 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 WTF have you been smoking Martin?? That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on the net. QED 79 has one purpose in life: towing cars at best and even then its marginal
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 12, 2023 17:39:04 GMT
Would it matter if he had? You've got your mind made up, and regardless of the fact you personally heard the difference between your NVA cable and my Spotfire cable in both my system and yours, you still refuse to acknowledge that these things have an effect. Don't be too hard on our dear old mate Martin.
EVERY forum has it's very own resident miserable naysayer Ollie, so let him get on with the job shall we? I don't have an issue with people thinking something that opposes my own thoughts on a subject, I mean, that's how it is in every other walk of life, but I was sat next to Martin when we did that comparison. Both here and at his house. The change to what we heard was absolutely undeniable and repeatable. What does my nut is that even though this comparison took place in two separate systems, and the same thing changed in the sound every time, apparently now, QED tow rope is as good as anything else out there....I mean, it's utterly fucking ridiculous. Did I imagine that martin's speaker cable was overdriving and distorting the Mids on Robert Plants "29 Palms"? Did I imagine that when we swapped the speaker cable it suddenly became far, FAR cleaner and lost any trace of distortion? If I did, he did too....because that's what brought about the comparison!!!! Was it that the "a Krell can drive anything" Krell KSA50MKII wasn't up to driving the cables? Why did it happen exactly the same on my 686?? Tbf, I'm sick of every thread becoming a discussion about why things cannot make a difference.
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Post by misterc on Mar 12, 2023 17:41:06 GMT
Martin steadfastly has his beliefs not even a nait 2/kan's an lp12 will convince him it all sounds the same the sooner we accept this fact we can move on.
It's like a reverse conformation bias
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 12, 2023 17:56:58 GMT
I enjoyed the Cantons as much as I initially thought I did as an initial demo at the dealers, BUT rather than use similar amp setup to mine, he put in one costing double what mine did, expensive rack and power conditioner (which I did not have) and some TQ Ultra Black II speaker cable. Fair do's, it bought out what the speaker could do, and next stop was a home demo, but a family health matter meant it had to be knocked on the head Ok, lets get back to the matter at hand, and that's speakers. I wouldn't worry too much about that , Peter. It's in the dealers interest to make you think that you need these items, which you don't. You can still get great sound without all of that audiophile stuff. Can you get a home demo at all? He must think you are serious if you go in for a demo at the shop and then ask to try at home? I would be tempted to turn up with my amplifier and source, and make them use that.
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Post by lurch on Mar 12, 2023 18:50:25 GMT
QED 79 strand performing at the same level as TQ Ultra Black II 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 WTF have you been smoking Martin?? That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on the net. QED 79 has one purpose in life: towing cars at best and even then its marginal I'd only ever use it for for tieing up old carpets or stacks of used newspapers, VD Blue or Black are for towing things.
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Post by hifinutt on Mar 12, 2023 19:02:48 GMT
Currently listening to a bel canto eix pre dac .this has quite an effect on the tannoys ( i am pretty sure its bass setting is 0) .the subterannean bass has increased massively
Just replacing your ps audio dac with something like this may mean no need to change speakers at all
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Post by pete on Mar 12, 2023 21:52:39 GMT
QED 79 has one purpose in life: towing cars at best and even then its marginal I'd only ever use it for for tieing up old carpets or stacks of used newspapers, VD Blue or Black are for towing things. 42 strand, would this be more suited for lighter uses? hanging pictures etc?
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Post by macca on Mar 13, 2023 7:15:55 GMT
Don't be too hard on our dear old mate Martin.
EVERY forum has it's very own resident miserable naysayer Ollie, so let him get on with the job shall we? I don't have an issue with people thinking something that opposes my own thoughts on a subject, I mean, that's how it is in every other walk of life, but I was sat next to Martin when we did that comparison. Both here and at his house. The change to what we heard was absolutely undeniable and repeatable. What does my nut is that even though this comparison took place in two separate systems, and the same thing changed in the sound every time, apparently now, QED tow rope is as good as anything else out there....I mean, it's utterly fucking ridiculous. Did I imagine that martin's speaker cable was overdriving and distorting the Mids on Robert Plants "29 Palms"? Did I imagine that when we swapped the speaker cable it suddenly became far, FAR cleaner and lost any trace of distortion? If I did, he did too....because that's what brought about the comparison!!!! Was it that the "a Krell can drive anything" Krell KSA50MKII wasn't up to driving the cables? Why did it happen exactly the same on my 686?? Tbf, I'm sick of every thread becoming a discussion about why things cannot make a difference. you're forgetting I was the one who pointed out that spotfire/NVA thing to you - I have never said there cannot be edge cases and I pointed out that the TQ cable has high capacitance so might change the sound by changing the frequency response - which is the only way a cable can change the sound. You can do that with a tone control or EQ you don't need thousands of quids worth of wire. Pete opened this thread inviting comments so I made mine. he's said he's on a budget so it's not good that he thinks he needs 'better' cables and 'better' amps if he upgrades the speakers. The problem is that others cannot just give their advice too, they have to attack mine even though they clearly don't have any idea how this stuff actually works. You don't see me all over the forum telling people they can't hear what they are hearing. Where's my comments on those mods you just did to your Ektas? Or on Robbies thread where he is experimenting with fuses? Right - there are none. I could pick a dozen other examples. I just give advise if asked and if I have something to contribute. It's others who need to wind their necls in.
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optical
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Post by optical on Mar 13, 2023 8:07:27 GMT
You don't see me all over the forum telling people they can't hear what they are hearing. Where's my comments on those mods you just did to your Ektas? Or on Robbies thread where he is experimenting with fuses? Right - there are none. I could pick a dozen other examples. Sorry Martin, I haven't said anything on this yet but there are plenty of your comments on threads literally telling me (specifically) that I cannot claim I've heard what I've said I've heard. If you're going to stick to your guns and maintain your stance on these subjects, that's one thing, but don't flat out deny that you haven't done exactly what you outline above previously. It's basically calling people liars, whether from a place of good intention/knowledge, whatever, that becomes irrelevant due to the way you go about it. Perhaps if you suggested these explanations you (and some others to be fair) have, rather than telling people it's a fact, people would be far more receptive, and it would spark a conversation and debate rather than dividing contributors.
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optical
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Post by optical on Mar 13, 2023 8:19:36 GMT
QED 79 has one purpose in life: towing cars at best and even then its marginal I'd only ever use it for for tieing up old carpets or stacks of used newspapers, VD Blue or Black are for towing things. Rubbishing of VD Black & Blue cables . . . . . . . Used them very happily on setups for years . . . (Just my way of saying they are certainly not the 'worst' offenders) LOL
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Post by jandl100 on Mar 13, 2023 9:40:53 GMT
I'd only ever use it for for tieing up old carpets or stacks of used newspapers, VD Blue or Black are for towing things. Rubbishing of VD Black & Blue cables . . . . . . . Used them very happily on setups for years . . . (Just my way of saying they are certainly not the 'worst' offenders) LOL Well personally, I think Tannoys are only fit as boat anchors, and a whole bunch of people are going to be offended by that. Just get used to opinions and experiences differing is probably the best policy.
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Post by misterc on Mar 13, 2023 10:13:11 GMT
Well personally, I think Tannoys are only fit as boat anchors, and a whole bunch of people are going to be offended by that. Just get used to opinions and experiences differing is probably the best policy. Hey Jerry
That is an offense to boat anchors everywhere
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Post by misterc on Mar 13, 2023 10:16:30 GMT
I'd only ever use it for for tieing up old carpets or stacks of used newspapers, VD Blue or Black are for towing things. Rubbishing of VD Black & Blue cables . . . . . . . Used them very happily on setups for years . . . They are safe at best, non offensive run of the mill easy application cables, I literally have aches of them here.
I don't get offened by them, they cause me zero pain, they are just handy for basic test hook ups, critical listening?, well thats another matter.
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optical
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Post by optical on Mar 13, 2023 10:27:50 GMT
Rubbishing of VD Black & Blue cables . . . . . . . Used them very happily on setups for years . . . They are safe at best, non offensive run of the mill easy application cables, I literally have aches of them here.
I don't get offened by them, they cause me zero pain, they are just handy for basic test hook ups, critical listening?, well thats another matter.
Hi Tony, yeah it was more of a 'I used to be well happy with them until I heard something better' comment and just goes to show you don't know until you know. They do a job indeed. I actually use the thin gauge for grounding purposes (TT's, equipment chassis etc) as like you I seem to have reels of it from various setups. Back to the speakers, (and please try to ignore the fact I'm buying some other speakers from @arke too) but I'm currently listening to a pair of Arke Duos. I never thought I'd be happy with a bookshelf speaker, especially one this diminutive (although it's quite deep dimensions-wise, although Jason says it can be made more shallow without loss of SQ). But it's really re-evaluated my reference for stand mount speakers. Okay it's not doing a huge amount of sub 40hz bass (although it does reach lower than some floor standers) but it's able to do convincing low end and actually pressurise the room surprisingly well. This from a single 5" driver, it's crazy. I really hope the OP can get a home demo because ultimately it's the only way to know for sure how a speaker is going to perform in the real world (your room). On paper I'd certainly have overlooked this design on size alone but it's doing a lot of things significantly bigger (and more expensive) speakers don't really get right. . . .
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Post by misterc on Mar 13, 2023 11:15:26 GMT
CHris
I also have reels possibly KM's of wire from .2 to 6mm in conductor size and happily use those for chassis connecting we use for demonstarting the naim method, then we use other ones which clients purchase its a great way of helping people decide, we also have a significant amount of branded audio cables (all of which sound indentical of course) to again demonstrate against customer units. Again for various audio equipment boxes its the same.
Agree with bookselves, with the right model they can seriously surprise big time, in my own personal system I use stand mounts, bass measureable in room in 27.5hz, my other half preferes the floor standing versions, (R-1's) they are superb BUT you need a barn to use them in and lets be realistic here very, very few people have a barn or suitable room in which to use speakers of that magnitute. Would suggest that 30% of my time is spent explaining to cleints that while I would love to sell speaker 'a' as its $$£££ in cost but It's never going to work in ther rooms ever. Invest in a good audio RTA (have seen them for around £600 used) and your lives will become simpler and the guessing will stop or be significantly reduced. Or Jason just has a on line click and collect cart Speakers are imho the most time you will spend chosing / owning out of all of the audio equipment you will ever buy, before having my current speakers the longest I ever owned a pair of speakers (post 2002) was a pair of Grand Utopia III's they lasted 2 years and this will make you smile they we upgraded by a pair of stand mounts and cost was NOT the deciding factor. SQ was If I can make a suggestion here Can Pete post some images of his listening position plus three other showing a 360 dgree views from his seat we may be able to see any potential issues that maybe affecting the end result
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Post by peterthebutcher on Mar 13, 2023 11:42:49 GMT
Can Pete post some images of his listening position plus three other showing a 360 dgree views from his seat we may be able to see any potential issues that maybe affecting the end result
I will try and put some pics on here, have to ask the other half tho, as she has the phone, I do not have one
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Post by peterthebutcher on Mar 13, 2023 15:50:55 GMT
Can Pete post some images of his listening position plus three other showing a 360 dgree views from his seat we may be able to see any potential issues that maybe affecting the end result I will try and put some pics on here, have to ask the other half tho, as she has the phone, I do not have one I have tried to put a couple of pics up, but its not having it, so not bothering . Suffice to say, my listening position is a large 5 seat corner sofa, and its bang in the middle of the speakers, about 6ft away (so equilateral triangle). the Rel 8/12 subs are next to them the speakers are about 12" away from the rear wall, toed in slightly, and sit on granite slabs with soundcare superspikes. the ceiling is your normal height7ft. Am not going to put any GIK panels on the rear walls, as would not please other half, as its our only sitting room in the bungalow. I know when the dealer was here a couple of times, setting the subs up properly, he said the best sound was just at the rear of the sofa
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