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Post by pete on May 2, 2023 21:48:00 GMT
The day finally arrived. The skies may have been grey but I was excited and happy to be about to greet Jason, Arke, who was bringing me quite a large delivery. It had been a few months since I heard the Ekta MkII at Oli’s, and that had been enough to show me these Troels speakers were the way to go. My room is a little larger than Oli’s, and I decided that I wanted something a bit different. So with Jason’s help, and considerable expertise, and patience, I decided to go for a pair of Revelatory 851s, in a caramel bamboo finish. The design was to be as Troels has on his website, but with PC CCC wiring and upgraded binding posts. Unfortunately, the rain had started 30 minutes before Jason arrived, and although the distance to bring the speakers in from his car was short we decided that it was best to have something to eat first, it was well past lunch time. Fortified by lunch we headed out into the rain to bring in the speakers with a little plastic dust sheet to protect them. I say we, but it was just Jason carrying them, my role was just to get in the way. And then they were in my room! First impressions were, wow! These are seriously well made speakers, beautiful finish with exquisite attention to detail. We placed the speakers on Townshend bars, in the position the speakers they were replacing had sat moments before. To save embarrassment I won’t mention what these were, as they were normally used with my computer in a bedroom. Suffice to say, Jason did not think too much of them when we spent a few minutes listening before the 851s replaced them!! Foolishly, I had decided to completely change my room around the day before, to allow the 851s to sit in the bay window. Why did I move all the electronics?? Initial listening was to be done on my very capable Lector 603 CD player, the SP10 had decided that it did not like its new position and decided that it would not pass any sound to the amplifier!! Set up and ready to go, I had been listening to Dexys Does Irish and Country Soul, a favourite of mine, which I had felt was well recorded, with a variety of instruments playing. Right from the start I just thought wow, wow, wow. I had certainly made an amazing choice. The clarity, the sound stage, the emotion, the bass! Within seconds it was clear these speakers are special. And then something happened that I should have predicted, having read other reviews and thoughts of the music played through Troels designs. I put on a different track, Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil. It really didn’t sound too good. The limitations of the recording were there in full view, sadly the same was shown with the Sparks album, A Steady Drip, Drip, Drip and Anna Calvi’s debut album, Desire was good, but sounding compressed and not as I was hoping. I was limited to listening to CD, and although my collection is quite large, it does not have the depth and quality of my vinyl collection, why did I move the SP10 and why didn’t it want to play?? We moved to a couple of favourites. Abbey Road brought me back to the wonderful Sunday afternoon I had spent at Oli’s a couple of months earlier, when I first heard his Ektas and got me thinking of Troels speakers for myself. I was taken to a far better place. The joy of the musicianship, the playing, the creativity, the experience was there, right in front of me. This was followed by Buena Vista Social Club. I was in Cuba, I was in that bar, I was experiencing the performance right in front of me. I knew I had made a great decision. I need to thank Jason for his skill and professionalism to make such beautiful instruments. His abilities are on show in my room, his skill with cabinetry and speaker building is there for all to see. He may even be brining Mrs Pete around to the 851s. Her first comment was…. ‘ they are absolutely massive.’ However, by the next day she was commenting on how beautifully they are made and finished, she still feels they are very large though, and hasn’t commented on whether she feels they fall into the Dalek or coffin category just yet! But for me they are wonderful and the complement all the other outstanding parts of my system. I am looking forward to spending hours of time revisiting my music collection. And, of course, what was the reason the SP10 was not playing? It was because in my haste I failed to line the splitter box up correctly between the TT and the cable to the Avalon OBX. Something I completely failed to spot in the time before Jason’s arrival. And it took me a good few hours the next day too! And as a post script, the next day arrived and I was listening to Made in Japan by Deep Purple. I was sitting there beaming. The clarity and resolution was remarkable. To my ears these are the best speakers I have heard. The joy they are giving me is immense. I am looking forward to hear how they improve over coming days and weeks. If anyone is interested in a floor standing speaker of this type you would, in my opinion, struggle to improve on the 851, within reason of course!!
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Post by stevew on May 3, 2023 5:58:38 GMT
Congratulations Pete. Jason’s work on Troels designs is quite something. The pride of ownership will grow as the speakers bed in and insights into music and albums gets greater. Happy days.
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Post by peterthebutcher on May 3, 2023 6:30:53 GMT
they look superb, and DIY speakers show they can certainly match any of the "big gun speakers", in the "Looks" department. Great job Jason, I would love those.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 7:06:42 GMT
they look superb, and DIY speakers show they can certainly match any of the "big gun speakers", in the "Looks" department. Great job Jason, I would love those. You should speak to Jason. I've said it before on your thread, but if I were looking for speakers, that's where I'd be looking
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Post by mikeyb on May 3, 2023 7:39:05 GMT
they look superb, and DIY speakers show they can certainly match any of the "big gun speakers", in the "Looks" department. Great job Jason, I would love those. You should speak to Jason. I've said it before on your thread, but if I were looking for speakers, that's where I'd be looking Totally agree 100%. Then you'll get what suits you and your room rather than buying blind or is it deaf 😁 Not only that, you're buyuni speakers that would cost many times more in retail terms.
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Post by stevew on May 3, 2023 7:59:41 GMT
I know why we use ‘DIY’ to differentiate from ‘retail’. Trouble is for me it conjures up hand painted Wilmslow audio mdf jobs.
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Post by pete on May 3, 2023 8:06:31 GMT
they look superb, and DIY speakers show they can certainly match any of the "big gun speakers", in the "Looks" department. Great job Jason, I would love those. You should speak to Jason. I've said it before on your thread, but if I were looking for speakers, that's where I'd be looking Couldn’t agree more. These speakers are far from ‘cheap’ but offer amazing value. I feel similar speaker, from a well know manufacturer, would be between 4 and 5 times the cost. You wouldn’t get the chance to tailor them to exactly how you want with finishing, and wiring to the level that suits you.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 8:35:31 GMT
I know why we use ‘DIY’ to differentiate from ‘retail’. Trouble is for me it conjures up hand painted Wilmslow audio mdf jobs. Calling them DIY is absolutely not doing them any justice at all. They are FAR from DIY. They are hand crafted speaker cabinets, made by an exceptionally talented guy. The work on the Ekta, the Vaders, the second Vaders and now the 851 demonstrate that the finish is not a fluke. The levels of performance you get from these Troels speakers is just ridiculous value for money. I have heard all of these speakers, and they are levels above anything you could buy for the same cost in the used or commercial market. Apologies if I am coming over a little enthusiastic, but i am extremely passionate about seeing Jason get the plaudits he deserves for the work he does. Not just the cabinets, but hand delivering them, measuring rooms, providing SOLID reasoning for speaker choice in the room they are to be used in and then setting up the speakers for the new owner. That is all unheard of unless you are spending £50k or above. The speakers as a whole may be available to the DIY community, but these cabinets are top class. DO NOT WASTE THIS OPPORTUNITY WHILE WE STILL HAVE HIM. Pete, I am absolutely overjoyed to see another life long audiophile hitting the bigtime by getting some stonking speakers. Your system must be absolutely singing now, and in a few weeks once they have opened up, you must give us a little update. Congratulations matey.
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Post by pete on May 3, 2023 8:44:02 GMT
I know why we use ‘DIY’ to differentiate from ‘retail’. Trouble is for me it conjures up hand painted Wilmslow audio mdf jobs. Calling them DIY is absolutely not doing them any justice at all. They are FAR from DIY. They are hand crafted speaker cabinets, made by an exceptionally talented guy. The work on the Ekta, the Vaders, the second Vaders and now the 851 demonstrate that the finish is not a fluke. The levels of performance you get from these Troels speakers is just ridiculous value for money. I have heard all of these speakers, and they are levels above anything you could buy for the same cost in the used or commercial market. Apologies if I am coming over a little enthusiastic, but i am extremely passionate about seeing Jason get the plaudits he deserves for the work he does. Not just the cabinets, but hand delivering them, measuring rooms, providing SOLID reasoning for speaker choice in the room they are to be used in and then setting up the speakers for the new owner. That is all unheard of unless you are spending £50k or above. The speakers as a whole may be available to the DIY community, but these cabinets are top class. DO NOT WASTE THIS OPPORTUNITY WHILE WE STILL HAVE HIM. Pete, I am absolutely overjoyed to see another life long audiophile hitting the bigtime by getting some stonking speakers. Your system must be absolutely singing now, and in a few weeks once they have opened up, you must give us a little update. Congratulations matey. Oli makes an excellent point here. Not only not DIY, but they are far better made than any commercial speaker I have come across. I am sure there are commercial speakers of this quality out there but I’m not sure they would sound any better. Someone mentioned the phrase ‘Artisan Manufactured’, that’s where I would put them. Or, alternatively, just wonderful!!
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Post by stevew on May 3, 2023 9:00:31 GMT
Bespoke
There’s a good word.
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optical
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Post by optical on May 3, 2023 9:07:17 GMT
@arke designs couldn't be described as DIY at all, becasue I doubt there are even a handful of craftsmen around whom could achieve these outcomes by indeed "doing it yourself (themselves)" . . . . They are more "LTAAP" (Leave To An Absolute Pro) Another gorgeous pair from the Arke stable conveyor belt.
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Post by robbiegong on May 3, 2023 9:24:00 GMT
Those look gorgeous Pete, I'm well chuffed for you. And like all the best and proper hifi equipment, I bet on good tracks these will be revealing, insightful and blow your mind, whilst bad recordings wont be glossed over - faithful. Well done Pete. Btw, if your numbers come up by any chance send them my way and treat yourself to another pair from Jason, further improved, with every upgrade he can possibly offer
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Post by brucew268 on May 3, 2023 12:12:15 GMT
Arke-Troels-design bespoke master-crafted
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Post by pete on May 3, 2023 12:43:29 GMT
Those look gorgeous Pete, I'm well chuffed for you. And like all the best and proper hifi equipment, I bet on good tracks these will be revealing, insightful and blow your mind, whilst bad recordings wont be glossed over - faithful. Well done Pete. Btw, if your numbers come up by any chance send them my way and treat yourself to another pair from Jason, further improved, with every upgrade he can possibly offer Only thing Rob, can’t think how they would be bettered!😀
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Post by Arke on May 3, 2023 16:52:57 GMT
Thank you pete and thanks to you all for the kind words and comments. As always, it's been a pleasure to work with a fellow music/audio enthusiast. It is very rewarding for me to work with a client and find the right speaker for their room, system and music tastes. The speaker and the room are so important (most of the system IMO), and helping people to optimise the speakers and their position is very rewarding. It is such a unique thing and every person/room/system warrants a bespoke approach. Whilst not essential, it certainly helps in achieving a more optimised performance. I love building speakers and it makes it even more pleasing when I can build speakers (currently based on Troels Gravesen designs) that provide high-end performance at an affordable price. It is a great feeling to hear the speakers for the first time in their new system.
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Post by hifinutt on May 3, 2023 17:16:06 GMT
They look awesome ...enjoy .we are lucky to have such a fine craftsman
Would love to know how much they cost to buy
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Arke
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Post by Arke on May 3, 2023 17:53:41 GMT
They look awesome ...enjoy .we are lucky to have such a fine craftsman Would love to know how much they cost to buy Hard to give a price as I'm not making any new speakers this year (due to a house renovation). Parts and material prices have gone up 20-40% in the last 6 months and that may continue. 851s are particularly difficult to price as there are many bespoke options. There are two tweeter options (one is Beryllium), various crossover options and endless bespoke cabinet options. In addition, there are wiring and binding posts options too. Every speaker is unique. Also, my earlier clients got a special 'early bird' price. I have been charging below the market rate for a cabinet maker, and unfortunately this won't last forever. That being said, even at 50-100% more the 851s, Ektas and Vaders etc. are still great VFM. The 851s are effectively a Wilson Audio Sabrina X (RRP £26K). The drivers and cabinet size/shape are extremely similar. The Troels and Wilson crossovers are different and I have not AB'd the two. I can't predict price increases, however, a pair similar to Pete's is likely to be around 1/4 to 1/3 of the price of the Wilson Sabrina Xs. Bear in mind that there are plenty of more affordable Troels options. I also delivered some Discovery 861s last week (more info to come). These are sub £3k speakers and whilst not as good as Revelator 851s they were astonishing for the price - I couldn't believe how good they were!
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Post by gninnam on May 3, 2023 19:27:53 GMT
Lush and awesome spring to mind when I see these speakers and the plaudits being used by everyone who has seen and heard them. Can only agree with everyone that they could be the end game for a lot of people. Nice one Pete and enjoy and respect to Jason
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Post by hifinutt on May 4, 2023 14:27:17 GMT
Wow thanks for update on prices etc , and yes everything has risen in price
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Post by Arke on May 4, 2023 15:00:50 GMT
Wow thanks for update on prices etc , and yes everything has risen in price Sorry to be vague on prices - it really is very variable with spec. The 851s are particularly variable as the Beryllium tweeter adds about £400 and film and foil caps on the midrange add over £1800 (I doubt many people would do this!). The 851s price can vary by thousands based on spec choices and pro paint jobs can add £1-2k too. The most 'affordable' 851 spec is likely to be around £5.5-6k, however, that may change by next year, as prices will likely increase on parts and timber. I realise that these will seem very high prices to some people - VFM isn't necessarily low cost unfortunately.
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Post by pete on May 4, 2023 16:46:14 GMT
Wow thanks for update on prices etc , and yes everything has risen in price Sorry to be vague on prices - it really is very variable with spec. The 851s are particularly variable as the Beryllium tweeter adds about £400 and film and foil caps on the midrange add over £1800 (I doubt many people would do this!). The 851s price can vary by thousands based on spec choices and pro paint jobs can add £1-2k too. The most 'affordable' 851 spec is likely to be around £5.5-6k, however, that may change by next year, as prices will likely increase on parts and timber. I realise that these will seem very high prices to some people - VFM isn't necessarily low cost unfortunately. A good honest description Jason. The parts prices for these speakers are a large percentage of the cost. Even for someone building the cabinets themselves they are not cheap speakers.
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Post by electronumpty on May 6, 2023 10:12:44 GMT
Wow thanks for update on prices etc , and yes everything has risen in price Sorry to be vague on prices - it really is very variable with spec. The 851s are particularly variable as the Beryllium tweeter adds about £400 and film and foil caps on the midrange add over £1800 (I doubt many people would do this!). The 851s price can vary by thousands based on spec choices and pro paint jobs can add £1-2k too. The most 'affordable' 851 spec is likely to be around £5.5-6k, however, that may change by next year, as prices will likely increase on parts and timber. I realise that these will seem very high prices to some people - VFM isn't necessarily low cost unfortunately. Given all the different possible permutations thats understandable. Maybe you could offer a "starts from" ball park figure for the most basic model which is then dependent on finsh spec etc.
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Post by Arke on May 6, 2023 10:22:29 GMT
Sorry to be vague on prices - it really is very variable with spec. The 851s are particularly variable as the Beryllium tweeter adds about £400 and film and foil caps on the midrange add over £1800 (I doubt many people would do this!). The 851s price can vary by thousands based on spec choices and pro paint jobs can add £1-2k too. The most 'affordable' 851 spec is likely to be around £5.5-6k, however, that may change by next year, as prices will likely increase on parts and timber. I realise that these will seem very high prices to some people - VFM isn't necessarily low cost unfortunately. Given all the different possible permutations thats understandable. Maybe you could offer a "starts from" ball park figure for the most basic model which is then dependent on finsh spec etc. For 851s it is already in the quoted text. The Troels catalogue has about 100 speaker options, so it is a large undertaking to price every model at basic level. I have so far provided quotes for anyone interested in a particular speaker.
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Post by robbiegong on May 6, 2023 16:30:18 GMT
Looking forward to more from Pete as the weeks, months, hours pass - Pete do update your blog with your thoughts and more piccies too - please (need to update my own at some point come to think of it)
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Post by pete on May 6, 2023 17:04:16 GMT
Looking forward to more from Pete as the weeks, months, hours pass - Pete do update your blog with your thoughts and more piccies too - please (need to update my own at some point come to think of it) Will do Rob. I have been away for a few days, but back now and looking forward to some serious listening.
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Post by pete on May 8, 2023 16:14:13 GMT
There is a track on The Wedding Present’s album Going, Going… called Greenland. It’s is just a drum beat with Brix Smith speaking coordinates over it. I am completely blown away by the realism of the drum rhythm. I have never heard anything like this before. The resolution, resonance and the ability to feel the drum beat is something that is truely remarkable. I can accept that the front end needs to be pretty good to supply the signal, but these 851s really are something else.
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Post by Arke on May 8, 2023 16:27:42 GMT
There is a track on The Wedding Present’s album Going, Going… called Greenland. It’s is just a drum beat with Brix Smith speaking coordinates over it. I am completely blown away by the realism of the drum rhythm. I have never heard anything like this before. The resolution, resonance and the ability to feel the drum beat is something that is truely remarkable. I can accept that the front end needs to be pretty good to supply the signal, but these 851s really are something else. Give them a few more weeks and they'll be even better Pete.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2023 16:51:23 GMT
There is a track on The Wedding Present’s album Going, Going… called Greenland. It’s is just a drum beat with Brix Smith speaking coordinates over it. I am completely blown away by the realism of the drum rhythm. I have never heard anything like this before. The resolution, resonance and the ability to feel the drum beat is something that is truely remarkable. I can accept that the front end needs to be pretty good to supply the signal, but these 851s really are something else. It's great isn't Pete. Serious game changer speakers. I find myself trawling through the Troels speakers builds most days
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Post by pete on May 8, 2023 16:55:56 GMT
There is a track on The Wedding Present’s album Going, Going… called Greenland. It’s is just a drum beat with Brix Smith speaking coordinates over it. I am completely blown away by the realism of the drum rhythm. I have never heard anything like this before. The resolution, resonance and the ability to feel the drum beat is something that is truely remarkable. I can accept that the front end needs to be pretty good to supply the signal, but these 851s really are something else. It's great isn't Pete. Serious game changer speakers. I find myself trawling through the Troels speakers builds most days Haha, just like a kid would do with The Argos catalogue back in the day!! There are some great speakers in there if the ones we have heard are anything to go by!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2023 17:01:17 GMT
It's great isn't Pete. Serious game changer speakers. I find myself trawling through the Troels speakers builds most days Haha, just like a kid would do with The Argos catalogue back in the day!! There are some great speakers in there if the ones we have heard are anything to go by! That's exactly right.
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