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Post by stevew on Oct 31, 2023 12:25:34 GMT
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Post by firebottle on Oct 31, 2023 13:00:45 GMT
The government are a shower of sh1t, but where do you find a sweeter smelling one?
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Post by misterc on Oct 31, 2023 14:40:50 GMT
Skunknac trying to appease voters again eh? Doesn't he realise that the ship is below the water line already?
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Post by lurch on Oct 31, 2023 16:08:13 GMT
Lets face it, at election time, be it local or national, your only choice is to choose who you perceive to be the least worst. Politicians are nothing more than self serving shysters who derive great pleasure from having their egos massaged whilst blowing smoke up your arse.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2023 17:08:57 GMT
I am absolutely delighted at this U-TURN.
The plan they tried to implement was doomed from day one, mainly due to overlooking the horrifically complicated ticketing options available to the public.
Fragmentation of companies, ticket restrictions within those companies and between them makes it almost impossible for the person on the street to know what to buy, when they can use what they have bought, or even if they can use what they have purchased, at that time, on the Train operator that calls into the station.
It's a rotten system and needs a complete overhaul. Until that happens, there is absolutely no chance that the gov will ever win approval to close ticket offices.
It's a great day in the history of Unions and Consumer groups.
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Post by hifinutt on Oct 31, 2023 17:38:45 GMT
agreed , i was one who did the consulations and pretty vocal against it . sometimes our machines dont work and sometimes you just need advice from a human
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Post by gninnam on Oct 31, 2023 18:05:53 GMT
Tell you what pissed me off the other weekend. My wife and I had booked a meal and some drinks in town (Leeds) so we would use the train. 11:26 was the time of the train departure and my wife was running a little late - I thought she had already booked the tickets but turns out she hadn't so as we are going to our local station she was trying to book the ticket. We saw the train entering the station but she couldn't get the tickets booked so we thought we can either buy them off the guard/conductor or at the Leeds station. Train was rammed so never saw the guard/conductor. Gets in the queue to get the ticket and this rail guy walks up and asks us why we are queuing for a ticket so we explain. Asks to step over away from the queue. Then informs us it is illegal to travel on a train without a ticket - we both get fined £54 each....... I ask if it is illegal to travel without a ticket then why is there a guard/conductor on board with a ticket machine - informed that that person is not obliged to sell us a ticket and is there for our safety - WTF Managed to have a good meal and drinks though but £104 spent before we had even left the station left a very nasty taste in my mouth  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2023 18:59:27 GMT
Tell you what pissed me off the other weekend. My wife and I had booked a meal and some drinks in town (Leeds) so we would use the train. 11:26 was the time of the train departure and my wife was running a little late - I thought she had already booked the tickets but turns out she hadn't so as we are going to our local station she was trying to book the ticket. We saw the train entering the station but she couldn't get the tickets booked so we thought we can either buy them off the guard/conductor or at the Leeds station. Train was rammed so never saw the guard/conductor. Gets in the queue to get the ticket and this rail guy walks up and asks us why we are queuing for a ticket so we explain. Asks to step over away from the queue. Then informs us it is illegal to travel on a train without a ticket - we both get fined £54 each....... I ask if it is illegal to travel without a ticket then why is there a guard/conductor on board with a ticket machine - informed that that person is not obliged to sell us a ticket and is there for our safety - WTF Managed to have a good meal and drinks though but £104 spent before we had even left the station left a very nasty taste in my mouth You can only be fined for fare evasion if you are actively avoiding buying a ticket. To take you out of the ticket line and then fine you when you are trying to buy a ticket retrospectively and voluntarily is abuse of position. Send a full complaint into the train operator. They will most likely reimburse you. |
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 31, 2023 20:58:42 GMT
100% you'll get that back
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Post by gninnam on Oct 31, 2023 23:18:28 GMT
Thanks Oli - will look into that.
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Post by gninnam on Oct 31, 2023 23:45:20 GMT
Oli - I have paraphrased what you typed above and this is what I plan to send to Northern Rail - let me know what you think?
Whilst recently travelling from XXXXX to XXXXX for a celebratory meal with family, my partner and I were in the process of purchasing a ticket via Trainline when our train arrived. Believing that we were only moments away from completing the purchase, we boarded the train.
However, due to phone signal issues (common on trains) the transaction did not go through. We tried in vain to find any functioning WiFi, so I set out to find the guard to buy a physical ticket for my partner and I.
Due to the volume of passengers on board, i did not manage to locate the conductor before our stop, and our further attempts to buy online had failed.
Once we arrived at Leeds station, we immediately joined the queue to purchase a ticket for the journey we had just taken, and to purchase the return portion for the return journey we required later that evening.
Whilst waiting in line, we were approached by a member of your revenue team, who asked why we were in the queue, and if he could help
I explained what had happened in total exasperation, and that we were now waiting in line to buy a ticket for both legs of our journey. At this point he pulled us out of the queue and informed us that he was issuing a fine for fare evasion.
When I asked the member of staff what else we could have done to buy a ticket, as could not get a ticket on-line (phone signal on a moving train) or from the machine at the station (massive queue) then when we boarded the train we couldn't find the guard to purchase a ticket from, his response was to start quoting railway bylaws and to inform us that: "the guard isn't on the train to issue tickets"
Surely, attempting to buy a ticket online, trying to find the guard/conductor to buy a ticket, and then voluntary waiting in line at Leeds station to buy a ticket retrospectivly, is not the same as deliberately boarding a train with the intent to "Fare Evade" ?
The member of staff actively prevented and diverted us from buying a ticket in order to issue a fine for not having a ticket!
I felt that to be purposely taken out of the ticket line, and then to be fined when I was actively trying to buy a ticket retrospectively, and voluntarily, is a deliberate and devious act. An abuse of the position this person holds.
My partner and I were totally embarrassed and mortified. The abundance of opportunity for good customer service to be delivered on behalf of your company was gleefully ignored by your member of staff, who seemed to relish the opportunity to wield his power and penalise us for our unsuccessful attempts to buy a ticket.
I would like to request that this complaint is looked into thoroughly, and also to have this fine squashed/refunded immediately.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 1, 2023 0:45:26 GMT
Oli - I have paraphrased what you typed above and this is what I plan to send to Northern Rail - let me know what you think? Whilst recently travelling from XXXXX to XXXXX for a celebratory meal with family, my partner and I were in the process of purchasing a ticket via Trainline when our train arrived. Believing that we were only moments away from completing the purchase, we boarded the train. However, due to phone signal issues (common on trains) the transaction did not go through. We tried in vain to find any functioning WiFi, so I set out to find the guard to buy a physical ticket for my partner and I. Due to the volume of passengers on board, i did not manage to locate the conductor before our stop, and our further attempts to buy online had failed. Once we arrived at Leeds station, we immediately joined the queue to purchase a ticket for the journey we had just taken, and to purchase the return portion for the return journey we required later that evening. Whilst waiting in line, we were approached by a member of your revenue team, who asked why we were in the queue, and if he could help I explained what had happened in total exasperation, and that we were now waiting in line to buy a ticket for both legs of our journey. At this point he pulled us out of the queue and informed us that he was issuing a fine for fare evasion. When I asked the member of staff what else we could have done to buy a ticket, as could not get a ticket on-line (phone signal on a moving train) or from the machine at the station (massive queue) then when we boarded the train we couldn't find the guard to purchase a ticket from, his response was to start quoting railway bylaws and to inform us that: "the guard isn't on the train to issue tickets" Surely, attempting to buy a ticket online, trying to find the guard/conductor to buy a ticket, and then voluntary waiting in line at Leeds station to buy a ticket retrospectivly, is not the same as deliberately boarding a train with the intent to "Fare Evade" ? The member of staff actively prevented and diverted us from buying a ticket in order to issue a fine for not having a ticket! I felt that to be purposely taken out of the ticket line, and then to be fined when I was actively trying to buy a ticket retrospectively, and voluntarily, is a deliberate and devious act. An abuse of the position this person holds. My partner and I were totally embarrassed and mortified. The abundance of opportunity for good customer service to be delivered on behalf of your company was gleefully ignored by your member of staff, who seemed to relish the opportunity to wield his power and penalise us for our unsuccessful attempts to buy a ticket. I would like to request that this complaint is looked into thoroughly, and also to have this fine squashed/refunded immediately. I've edited it slightly... Send it with those little bits of detail required....you should be good. The legal definition of fare evasion is if you board a train and haven't bought a ticket, when there were available facilities to do so before boarding. However, to fine you whilst waiting in line to buy a ticket is outrageous. Good luck 👍 |
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Post by gninnam on Nov 1, 2023 9:26:24 GMT
Excellent Oli - waiting for your next book to be published  Will give this a go and see what happens! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 1, 2023 9:36:09 GMT
Excellent Oli - waiting for your next book to be published Will give this a go and see what happens! Hahaha, you'll find it in the fictional secton 🤣🤣 |
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Post by gninnam on Nov 1, 2023 14:37:29 GMT
OK - appeals raised. The area on the web site for typing your evidence/complaint only allowed enough characters for around 70% of what you had put together. I created a PDF and uploaded that so let's see what happens. Many thanks and sorry to take this thread off on a different tangent |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 1, 2023 15:29:29 GMT
All good. Hopefully you get a good outcome.
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Post by gninnam on Nov 20, 2023 17:52:39 GMT
Got an email today and they have told me that I do not have a leg to stand on so was worth a try but didn't win that one Thanks Oli for your help anyway. |
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Post by markn on Nov 20, 2023 17:56:22 GMT
I'm sorry to hear that. It's a real disgrace. I thought logic and common sense would prevail, but, alas not.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 20, 2023 18:13:10 GMT
Got an email today and they have told me that I do not have a leg to stand on so was worth a try but didn't win that one Thanks Oli for your help anyway. That's disappointing. |
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Post by macca on Nov 20, 2023 18:19:18 GMT
I used to get the train a fair bit and was always surprised by how many people bought their ticket off the guard.
In those days there were no barriers at most stations, so unless there was someone manually checking tickets you could get off the train and walk out onto the street unchallenged.
So I guess it was a gamble you couldn't lose - no guard comes round to check tickets, you travel for free. If he does, you just buy a ticket.
Liverpool South Parkway was always my favourite. They had barriers, it being a new station, but they were always wide open. There was a chair placed next to them for someone to sit in and check tickets manually but I only ever saw it occupied by the station cat.
Ofc I always would show him my ticket as I passed through.
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